What's the best RPG from a western dev?

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nod_calypse

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#1 nod_calypse
Member since 2022 • 760 Posts

I'm talking the entirety of video game history. What is the very best RPG that came from a western developer, in your opinion?

Baldur's Gate 2, I think.

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Archangel3371

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#2 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 40842 Posts

Mass Effect from BioWare.

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madsnakehhh

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#3 madsnakehhh
Member since 2007 • 18066 Posts

I really enjoyed Pillars of Eternity ... i want to say Mass Effect 2, but i think it hardly qualifies as an RPG.

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Maroxad

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#4 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 22025 Posts

Disco Elysium. It does what it sets out to do, and does so fantastically.

Combatwise, I would argue Jagged Alliance 2, then Temple of Elemental Evil. Divinity: Original Sin has good ideas, but is held back by stat bloat.

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Djoffer123

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#5 Djoffer123
Member since 2016 • 1981 Posts

Planescape Torment from black isle, Baldurs gate 2 from bioware and Ultima 7 from origin! Oh yeah and Might and magic world of xeen (4+5 combined)

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nod_calypse

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#6  Edited By nod_calypse
Member since 2022 • 760 Posts

@madsnakehhh said:

I really enjoyed Pillars of Eternity ... i want to say Mass Effect 2, but i think it hardly qualifies as an RPG.

I was gonna say the same about ME1. Great games, but somehow they seem to stretch the definition of RPG.

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uninspiredcup

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#7 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 54358 Posts

Donno. Fav modern one is UnderRail.

It does stealth really well.

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mrbojangles25

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#8 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 55642 Posts

@nod_calypse said:
@madsnakehhh said:

I really enjoyed Pillars of Eternity ... i want to say Mass Effect 2, but i think it hardly qualifies as an RPG.

I was gonna say the same about ME1. Great games, but somehow they seem to stretch the definition of RPG.

I'm mixed on this because mechanically, yeah, they are not really heavy on things like building a characters, dice rolls, etc. and things like that. You get some skill choices, sure, but not a whole lot else.

But at the same time, the core essence of an RPG is role-playing. Taking on the personality of another character, assuming a role, and acting as you would in whatever universe that character dwells.

I think in the latter, Mass Effect (and other action-RPG's) are very much role-playing games.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#9 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 22792 Posts

Undertale, Secret of Evermore, Indivisible, Anachronox, Millennium, Sonic Chronicles, Pier Solar, Stick of Truth...

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with_teeth26

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#10  Edited By with_teeth26
Member since 2007 • 11392 Posts

maybe Morrowind?

i'm probably biased since its the first RPG I played. but damn it blew my tits off as a kid.

Edit: Mass Effect is also a strong choice, that first game was so damn good despite the combat being the weakest of the trilogy. just had such great world building and start to the story of the trilogy.

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Postosuchus

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#11 Postosuchus
Member since 2005 • 888 Posts

As an overall package, Baldur’s Gate 2 Shadows of Amn. Planescape may have had better writing, and Icewind Dale 1/2 better combat flow, but BG2 sans expansion was a massive, packed game full of actual quests (ie not fetch) and a sense of wonder and adventure. I still remember first emerging from the starter dungeon into Waukeen's Promenade and experiencing the same sense of being lost that the player character is. And on my 6th playthrough, STILL finding new quests and secrets.

I enjoyed Throne of Baal for its mechanical additions and story closure, but that expansion marked the beginning of BioWare’s love of fake choices and the “must go to all 4 hubs in any order” formula they’ve used ever since.

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nod_calypse

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#12  Edited By nod_calypse
Member since 2022 • 760 Posts
@girlusocrazy said:

Undertale, Secret of Evermore, Indivisible, Anachronox, Millennium, Sonic Chronicles, Pier Solar, Stick of Truth...

Ah, shit, I love Secret of Evermore. Never see anyone mention it. The story and atmosphere were awesome. More of an action RPG, but yeah. Great game.

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tjandmia

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#13 tjandmia
Member since 2017 • 3206 Posts

Nothing has yet topped the Witcher 3.

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hardwenzen

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#14 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 28288 Posts

Fallout or Mass Effect.

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madsnakehhh

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#15 madsnakehhh
Member since 2007 • 18066 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@nod_calypse said:
@madsnakehhh said:

I really enjoyed Pillars of Eternity ... i want to say Mass Effect 2, but i think it hardly qualifies as an RPG.

I was gonna say the same about ME1. Great games, but somehow they seem to stretch the definition of RPG.

I'm mixed on this because mechanically, yeah, they are not really heavy on things like building a characters, dice rolls, etc. and things like that. You get some skill choices, sure, but not a whole lot else.

But at the same time, the core essence of an RPG is role-playing. Taking on the personality of another character, assuming a role, and acting as you would in whatever universe that character dwells.

I think in the latter, Mass Effect (and other action-RPG's) are very much role-playing games.

Yeah definitely, in that case i have to go with Mass Effect 2.

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Ghosts4ever

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#16 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 23647 Posts

Deus Ex.

Probably best game ever made.

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dracula_16

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#17 dracula_16
Member since 2005 • 15548 Posts

I would say Oblivion. I love Skyrim and Fable 2, but I prefer Oblivion.

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Renegade_Fury

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#18  Edited By Renegade_Fury
Member since 2003 • 21523 Posts

Witcher 3 for me, and it's my favorite open world.

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Jag85

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#19  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 17835 Posts

Unpopular opinion, but...

Fable

I remember this game getting quite a bit of hate, because Peter Molyneux failed to keep his promises (as usual) and it deviates somewhat from a typical WRPG formula. But it's a great game in its own right. As someone who didn't care much for WRPGs, this game sucked me into its world like no other. It felt almost like Zelda meets GTA, but better than GTA (though not as good as Zelda).

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nod_calypse

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#20  Edited By nod_calypse
Member since 2022 • 760 Posts

@djoffer123 said:

Planescape Torment from black isle, Baldurs gate 2 from bioware and Ultima 7 from origin! Oh yeah and Might and magic world of xeen (4+5 combined)

Been meaning to play Xeen for years.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#21 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 22792 Posts

@nod_calypse: The screenshots on the box make you think it's going to look as smooth as Wolfenstein but don't be fooled.

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Pedro

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#22 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 63301 Posts

@Maroxad: "stat bloat"?

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nod_calypse

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#23 nod_calypse
Member since 2022 • 760 Posts

@Pedro said:

@Maroxad: "stat bloat"?

Yeah, kinda scratched my head on that one too. I love the emphasis on stats in D:OS.

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Fedor

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#24 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 11044 Posts

Deus Ex

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Maroxad

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#25 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 22025 Posts

@Pedro said:

@Maroxad: "stat bloat"?

Stats in Original Sin 2 scaling too much for my liking. I am a bigger fan of systems like Jagged Alliance where stat ranges are aroung 60-100

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TheEroica

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#26 TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 21051 Posts

@Archangel3371 said:

Mass Effect from BioWare.

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neogeo2k2

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#27 neogeo2k2
Member since 2019 • 104 Posts

I have to go with Secret of Evermore as well.

But I’m sure there was a few great ones during the super nes and genesis days

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nod_calypse

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#28 nod_calypse
Member since 2022 • 760 Posts

@neogeo2k2: The Secret of Evermore love in here is great. Some of my fondest gaming memories come from that game.

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Planeforger

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#29 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 19192 Posts

My top three would probably include Disco Elysium, Planescape Torment, and...Fallout 2? Vampire Bloodlines? There's a ton of competition for that third slot.

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Jag85

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#30 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 17835 Posts

My top three would be:

1. Fable

2. World of Warcraft

3. A Blurred Line

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Last_Lap

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#31 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 363 Posts

I'm gonna go with Fable, Jade Empire, KOTOR 1 & 2.

Did you know someone on here once said the OG Xbox was bad, I know what a silly take hey lol.

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hardwenzen

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#32 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 28288 Posts

@last_lap said:

I'm gonna go with Fable, Jade Empire, KOTOR 1 & 2.

Did you know someone on here once said the OG Xbox was bad, I know what a silly take hey lol.

The Xbox brand only began sucking when MS began focusing on Kinect. That is where Xbox died, and after all these years, its far from recovering.

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Last_Lap

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#33 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 363 Posts

@hardwenzen:

"That is where Xbox died, and after all these years, its far from recovering"

How does one recover if they have already died?

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hardwenzen

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#34 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 28288 Posts

@last_lap said:

@hardwenzen:

"That is where Xbox died, and after all these years, its far from recovering"

How does one recover if they have already died?

Gulag, or you can be bought back by your teammate. Haven't you seen Warzone, bro?

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Last_Lap

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#35 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 363 Posts

@hardwenzen: All I see is your tripping and falling all the time, could I suggest a helmet?

So what are your faves?

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Last_Lap

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#36 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 363 Posts

@fedor: The same a ghost, sure you don't want a mulligan lol.

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hardwenzen

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#37 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 28288 Posts

@last_lap said:

@hardwenzen: All I see is your tripping and falling all the time, could I suggest a helmet?

So what are your faves?

You asked me how, i told you how. Why is so hard to understand?

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Fedor

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#38 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 11044 Posts

@last_lap: Its the one solid opinion he has.

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#39 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 22910 Posts

Ghosts is forever on the broken clock rule. Gets a good take every now and again. Just can't dig below the surface, the reasoning will be just as dumb and hypocritical as anything else he says lol.

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above_average

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#40 above_average
Member since 2021 • 771 Posts

Divinity Original Sin 2.

But I never did play Baldur's Gate 2. BG3 will be my first Baldur's Gate expereince.

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#41 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 363 Posts

@hardwenzen: 🥱

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hardwenzen

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#42 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 28288 Posts

@last_lap said:

@hardwenzen: 🥱

You're getting too old, bro. Falling asleep on a gaming forum is very boomer of you.

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hardwenzen

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#43  Edited By hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 28288 Posts
@Maroxad said:

Disco Elysium. It does what it sets out to do, and does so fantastically.

Combatwise, I would argue Jagged Alliance 2, then Temple of Elemental Evil. Divinity: Original Sin has good ideas, but is held back by stat bloat.

Oh my! You're moaning about the massive build flexibility in Divinity as well??? BRO. You're becoming the most casual casual on SW. I give you 12 months, and even the next 3D mario will offer too much for your liking.

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Last_Lap

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#44 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 363 Posts

@hardwenzen said:
@last_lap said:

@hardwenzen: 🥱

You're getting too old, bro. Falling asleep on a gaming forum is very boomer of you.

Its hard when zen levels are so low.

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hardwenzen

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#45 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 28288 Posts

@last_lap said:
@hardwenzen said:
@last_lap said:

@hardwenzen: 🥱

You're getting too old, bro. Falling asleep on a gaming forum is very boomer of you.

Its hard when zen levels are so low.

There's a reason why everyone calls me tryhardwenzen, i never go low. Its simply not my style, bro.

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#46  Edited By Djoffer123
Member since 2016 • 1981 Posts

@nod_calypse: you really should and while it is a bit outdated in terms of graphics etc it’s one of the few games that doesn’t suffer much from it imo. And that is coming from someone who in general can’t play old games due to outdated graphic etc. I still play Xeen every couple of years!

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#47 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 22025 Posts

@hardwenzen said:
@Maroxad said:

Disco Elysium. It does what it sets out to do, and does so fantastically.

Combatwise, I would argue Jagged Alliance 2, then Temple of Elemental Evil. Divinity: Original Sin has good ideas, but is held back by stat bloat.

Oh my! You're moaning about the massive build flexibility in Divinity as well??? BRO. You're becoming the most casual casual on SW. I give you 12 months, and even the next 3D mario will offer too much for your liking.

Stat bloat, or numbers bloat is when numbers scale like crazy. HP, damage, you name it. This has numerous negative impacts on the game itself,

  1. Gear does not stay relevant for long, legendary weapons and armor are junk compared to even generic counterparts that are 2-3 levels higher.
  2. Being overlevelled trivializes encounters.
  3. Numbers become extremely gamey. And becomes an arms race, rather than an actually interesting part of the gameplay. All stats have to be built around the arms race and damage stats reign supreme.

There is a reason the definitive edition reduced numbers bloat, even the devs seemed to think it was too much. Consider playing games with low number scaling. You might start seeing the issue.

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hardwenzen

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#48 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 28288 Posts

@Maroxad said:
@hardwenzen said:
@Maroxad said:

Disco Elysium. It does what it sets out to do, and does so fantastically.

Combatwise, I would argue Jagged Alliance 2, then Temple of Elemental Evil. Divinity: Original Sin has good ideas, but is held back by stat bloat.

Oh my! You're moaning about the massive build flexibility in Divinity as well??? BRO. You're becoming the most casual casual on SW. I give you 12 months, and even the next 3D mario will offer too much for your liking.

Stat bloat, or numbers bloat is when numbers scale like crazy. HP, damage, you name it. This has numerous negative impacts on the game itself,

  1. Gear does not stay relevant for long, legendary weapons and armor are junk compared to even generic counterparts that are 2-3 levels higher.
  2. Being overlevelled trivializes encounters.
  3. Numbers become extremely gamey. And becomes an arms race, rather than an actually interesting part of the gameplay. All stats have to be built around the arms race and damage stats reign supreme.

There is a reason the definitive edition reduced numbers bloat, even the devs seemed to think it was too much. Consider playing games with low number scaling. You might start seeing the issue.

1- Its called vertical progression. Literally in every game that has it🤷‍♂️
2- Happens in every game. Nothing to do with stat bloat.
3- No idea what you're trying to say here.

The only bloat i've seen in both Divinity titles and RDR2 for that matter, is worthless items that fill your inventory.

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Maroxad

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#49  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 22025 Posts
@hardwenzen said:

1- Its called vertical progression. Literally in every game that has it🤷‍♂️

2- Happens in every game. Nothing to do with stat bloat.

3- No idea what you're trying to say here.

The only bloat i've seen in both Divinity titles and RDR2 for that matter, is worthless items that fill your inventory.

1. The armors of legend are junk compared to some random piece of cloth... dropped by some random zombie on the other half of the island. That is TERRIBLE design. It also limits your options based on your progression. Items will need a level requirement to prevent players from sneaking in to the other side, cheesing a drop, then steamroll the part where they are supposed to be.

2. So you think it is good that a tactical game loses all its tactics, because you have bigger numbers? Not to mention your statement is false. In RPGs with low scaling, you even a goblin can be a threat to a high level character. If Magic gets blown up by a grenade in JA2, no ammount of arbitary levels will save his life.

3. In games with low scaling. Numbers are more normalized and thus more easily balanced. In high scaling games, incl D:OS2, damage is almost always king. Because keepign up with the arms race is king, players will usually stick to a single stat and pump that up to keep up in the arms race. Another cool instance of low scaling, is how numbers work. Fall damage can properly work without being % based. Which means, a lot of interesting things can occur from a design point. Environmental damage can factor into gameplay in much more interesting ways.

If you actually think Numbers bloat is a good thing, I would probably recommend you Disgaea. Personally, I prefer it when my tactical games, focus on the tactics, rather than the numbers. But I guess the less skilled players. Need big numbers to compensate for their low IQs.

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#50  Edited By Litchie
Member since 2003 • 32620 Posts

@hardwenzen said:

I give you 12 months, and even the next 3D mario will offer too much for your liking.

Funny you say that, cause Mario Odyssey had way too much fluff going on. Mario 64 was tight as hell with its 120 stars to collect. Odyssey with its 800 moons just spat those things out everywhere and often gave you 3 moons at a time, for whatever reason. It kinda sucked.